Wesley Smith (00:00.494)
David, thanks so much for making time to join the podcast this morning.
David (00:07.832)
Anytime, thanks for inviting me.
Wesley Smith (00:10.166)
hey, we’re talking about partnerships this month, the month of August in the president’s forum. And I know that this is an issue that is near and dear to your heart. So let’s let’s talk first a really big picture question. As as a president, what kind of of emphasis do you place on partnerships as a strategy?
David (00:35.839)
well we think that partnerships are are the solution to prosperous future. and I and that’s not hy high hyperbole. I I really mean that. I’ve been paying attention to what’s been happening in healthcare for the past 30, 40 years. And there’s no question that healthcare has gone through a tremendous consolidation phase. And I think that higher education is at the beginning of a similar phase. And so
These partnerships in higher ed are really either key to survival for some smaller schools or they’re key to to growth and scaling for more established institutions. And and in the case of state schools, especially state schools that are parts of larger state systems, from a financial perspective, the smaller campuses simply cannot remain on their own. So I think partnerships can
Consolidations, MA, different kinds of of affiliations among institutions is going to be the key to the future in higher education.
Wesley Smith (01:44.653)
Yeah, there’s no question in my mind that that the landscape is going to be massively impacted by partnerships moving forward. And then, you know, just strategic initiatives for institution by institution will be impacted by that. So you’ve talked a lot about, you know, the big picture on on partnerships in higher education. Tell us a little bit about what you’re you what you’re thinking is with regard to institutional partnerships, especially with employers.
and other stakeholders that are really important to, you know, the outcomes of education for Excelsior.
David (02:20.718)
Sure. So I think one of the big
Challenges that large higher education systems have had in the past is that from the student perspective, there’s no benefit. A student by going to a school in a system doesn’t get to transfer more easily. There’s no guarantee that the credits will transfer if the student does, et cetera, et cetera. And so what we’re trying to do is form a different series of partnerships. You can call it a system-like model.
Although it’s definitely not going to be like a traditional system. But the big difference in what we’re trying to create is.
A frictionless ecosystem from the perspective of the student. So what I always say is that at Excelsior, we only have one mission, and that is our student success. Most institutions have many missions. They are focused on research, they’re focused on faculty, they’re focused on community engagement. We think those things are important, but those things for us are secondary compared to student success. And so then the question is from the perspective
Of a student, especially adult students, what do they need? Well, what they need is ease of transfer, they need good PLA, and they need to be assured that if they move among institutions, that they’re not going to lose credit, time, or money. And so what we’re trying to do is build work, we call it a constellation, a network of
David (03:59.545)
Collaborating institutions, in some cases parts of MAs, in other cases affiliations or just partnerships, where the institutions agree on that seamlessness from the perspective of students. And we are also inviting employers to be parts of those of that ecosystem. So from an employer perspective, if an employer is part of the ecosystem,
We work out, for example, how internships count toward credit so that students automatically get the credit towards their degree. We also provide the ecosystem as a one-stop shop for the employer. Single place to pay for education if the employers want to use the the education benefits, a place to go shopping for talent, a place to engage in talking about what.
Is needed from the employer’s perspective, and how that dovetails with curricula that are within that ecosystem, and so on. So it really is intended as a lifelong home for students and a place to take the friction out of the higher education employer process so that students can move more seamlessly among institutions within the system and among employers that are taking advantage of.
the system.
Wesley Smith (05:28.59)
So how has this been received by specifically employers? I mean, this is a a really nice thing for the students. Are employers willing to say, hey, yeah, this this is a better model of of partnership?
David (05:41.785)
They are. as a matter of fact, we started we we used to be part of guilt and we have we have ended that partnership. And and and
The the challenge with guild, what I think from an employer perspective is that yeah, it’s a single place, it’s a single payer option, but but it doesn’t give you any access to the curriculum, to the academics. And because guild doesn’t have any control over the academics. In the in the constellation, of course, when employers join, they get the benefits of the single payer model.
But they also get the benefits of a comprehensive curriculum across different disciplines, across levels in disciplines, micro-credentials to doctoral degrees and everything in between. And so we already have a couple of
healthcare, large healthcare partnerships that are very engaged in this. And more employers are showing interest because it solves their problems in two ways. they don’t have to worry about reimbursing their employees for benefits one employee at a time, and they get this entire ecosystem to shop in and for their employees to to learn in.
Wesley Smith (07:09.518)
Right, right. That makes a ton of sense to me. if if other presidents and other institutions are out there thinking about this and and trying to figure out, well, how can how could we replicate this or what are the key principles, you know, to starting something like this? What what would your advice be?
David (07:28.622)
Well, it’s not an easy thing to start. I’d say rather than trying to recreate more versions of the same thing, it would be much smarter to try to partner in this and grow the the system because
The more opportunities we give to students, the more they’re gonna benefit. And the more opportunities we keep the the ecosystem as a singular system rather than trying to create four or five, which just fragments the fragments the the the system and creates the same problem that I’ve been talking about. so so it’ll be better for the students. So
I’d say let’s have those conversations together and see if we can figure out how to plug various institutions into one ecosystem.
Wesley Smith (08:17.548)
Yeah, yeah. Okay. Now let me let me zoom back out, David, because I know that of all of our presidents, you you really have your your finger on the pulse of mergers, acquisitions, you know, the the the macro side of higher education. How would you say the constellation mindset impacts kind of the macro side?
David (08:41.274)
say more what you mean.
Wesley Smith (08:44.286)
Well okay, so let me let me re-ass this question. I’m I’ll I’m just we’ll cut this part out, Des. I’m I’m just gonna re-ass this. Okay. So David, y you are one of the presidents who has their you know, you you’re monitoring and you’re watching macro work in in higher education, especially with regards to mergers, acquisitions, what’s happening to institutions across the board. you have
a really collaborative style where you know you’re looking with your partners, you’re working on on collaborating internally, you’re working to benefit students. Can you just revisit the macro side for a second? How does how do partnerships benefit students currently in the system when presidents are more willing to to look at partnerships as a solution?
David (09:34.511)
Sure, great question. So what I think that there are three attitudinal differences among university presidents. one group believes it’s completely bulletproof, well-endowed institution, very selective, etc. They have no interest in partnerships, they want to continue their exclusivity. Okay, so they’re not gonna play. another group is
Convinced that if you ignore it, it’ll go away. So it’s a group of of denial precedents, what I what what I’ll call them, and that the problem really doesn’t exist. And if you if you don’t believe it exists, then it doesn’t. And then I think that there’s the final group that’s realistic about the changes that are happening. And then they have to make a decision about where they fit.
we’ve had schools approach us and say, We want to become part of Excelsior. And and my question to them is, do you want to be affiliated and essentially remain independent? And in in the two cases that we’re finishing up right now, both said no, we want to become integrated into Excelsior. We have another partner right now.
That wants to remain independent and share curricula and really focus on growing adult adult market share. And then we have another potential partner that is an entire campus, and and they’re interested in really making sure that the campus survives and having us take over all of the online pieces. So if the partnerships vary a lot. From the student perspective, I think what is important about the partnerships is that it creates a bigger
Easier to navigate universe for the student. So as opposed to a student having to choose, I want to go to an online school or I want to go to a brick and mortar school or I want to do you know whatever, the student has the entire universe. So maybe wants to start online and then do some intensive in-person experiences, or vice versa, start at a campus.
David (11:56.184)
then gets a job, maybe gets a job in a different part of the country, wants to work in it and also study online, but still wants to attend some in-person intensive experiences.
The the constellation model that we’re built developing allows students to do all of that. And so we now have opportunities for students to study in Florida, in the Chicago, Milwaukee area, and in California, in addition to Albany, New York, which is where we’re headquartered, and of course a broad array of online opportunities, not to mention opportunities for nursing students that include clinicals in 17 states across the country.
Wesley Smith (12:39.308)
Yeah. Yeah. Well, David, we we really appreciate you joining us today and we appreciate your, you know, strong expertise in the collaboration area and and and the experience that you’ve shared with us. Thanks for thanks for sharing that, Witt.
David (12:55.054)
Thank you.
Wesley Smith (12:56.642)
All right. Hey, d David, let me let me give me one second. I you were breaking up you were breaking up in that last one. Let me let me do the outro one more time. Okay. Or just the conclusion. Yeah. well David, thank you so much for joining us today. We appreciate your time and and the experience that you shared with our listeners, and we’re looking forward to having you back again soon.
David (12:59.31)
Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
David (13:20.613)
Thanks Wes, always a pleasure.
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